so do you do a lot of camping
 	
 	
 		
 
 		uh well yeah a fair amount mostly with boy scouts
 	
 	
 		oh is that right uh-huh um
 		my sons are in the boy scouts also uh so i know they go a lot of camping but i don't go with them
 		but uh we used to live in California and we did a little bit of camping in California not all that much but um enough to get a little flavor for it uh where mostly do you go with your camping
 	
 	
 		well mostly uh well boy scout camps near uh near Dallas uh
 		in in fact i i think i know your sons Danny and Sean right Jan Novak
 	
 	
 		oh who am i talking to
 		oh i can't believe that  well we can talk about anything  well
 	
 	
 		but we can talk about camping none the less
 		they didn't
 	
 	
 		you know this is really funny because i i've tried to make these phone calls um whenever it pops in my head and sometimes they say oh we can't find another party and after they
 		they say that two times i can't keep hanging on the phone and i just saw that card down there and now i'm really supposed to be baking bread for Cistercian  i said oh i'll make another phone call i guess another five dollars helps  so anyway
 	
 	
 		but we we should talk about camping because they're recording this
 	
 	
 		oh we have to talk about oh that's right we're on this recording thing well anyway um we used to go camping out in California up by Mendocino and um  to um
 		uh Lasson Park which is a volcanic a volcanic park and uh that was absolutely extraordinary and the rangers there that uh
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		do the tours and the little classes and the lectures and everything were quite extraordinary so that was uh one of our uh major camping times that we enjoyed very very much
 		uh do you ever go camping outside of the boy scouts
 	
 	
 		well we used to do a lot of camping uh in fact before we had kids Marie and i would go
 		we did a lot of canoe camping uh either in upstate New York where there are a lot of lakes up near Lake Placid and in that area and in Northern Ontario which is also full of lakes
 	
 	
 		oh yes
 		uh-huh
 	
 	
 		and some of our longest trips went for about six days and covered about seventy miles where you you canoe
 	
 	
 		oh my
 	
 	
 		uh from lake to lake sometimes by rivers where they connect or else you have to portage your canoe and all your equipment to the next lake
 	
 	
 		um-hum um-hum um
 	
 	
 		and so that that was a i i think it's a lot in a way easier to go canoe camping because you you don't have to watch the weight so much
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		and it's also cleaner because you can go swimming every day and it's very easy to keep keep cool and keep clean
 	
 	
 		oh that's true too
 		uh-huh
 	
 	
 		
 
 		and that's
 	
 	
 		we took one canoe trip in California now but the boys were very very small when we were out there and um it was a friend of Webbie's that got this group together
 		and uh there had been some rains and therefore the river was a little more swift than what might normally be expected and um
 		i i i found it exciting but i really thought that it was a trifle dangerous maybe because the currents were kind of bad and we just went ahead anyway but it was the Russian River yeah
 	
 	
 		what what river was that yeah i've seen i've seen the Russian River we never went canoeing on it that that can get pretty fast
 	
 	
 		yeah yeah
 		yeah it can and it did and um it was my first time it was Webbie's first time doing this also and we just trusted uh trusted in the uh knowledge of
 		this friend that got this party together that it would not be over dangerous and we had our
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		life belts on and everything else like that but we did dump over once and uh you know with small children like that just made me very nervous we didn't go again the next day we just uh kind of uh
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		stayed by camp site and uh cooked  but it it was it was very exciting and
 	
 	
 		sure sure
 	
 	
 		really very nice and um i wouldn't mind doing something like that again
 		and i guess the first time you do a major endeavor like that you really are a neophyte you don't know exactly what to expect or even sometimes what to do  but um
 		it it was quite an experience uh
 	
 	
 		yeah well you you have to be careful
 	
 	
 		um-hum um-hum yeah yeah so
 	
 	
 		you have to be careful
 		your your guys are going to Philmont are they
 	
 	
 		oh yes well Sean is Daniel went last summer so
 	
 	
 		again
 		right so Danny's not going again
 	
 	
 		no no no he's not gonna go again this time but uh you're gonna inherit Sean on this trip and uh um-hum
 	
 	
 		okay well i'll i'm going with them so
 	
 	
 		i know uh-huh have you been out there before oh you haven't well Daniel says it's i think it's really quite challenging
 	
 	
 		no
 		really
 	
 	
 		uh absolutely uh i kind of got the information by drips and drabs from last summer as different friends would talk to him and apparently whoever has to carry that water or part