okay well um about capital punishment first of all i know that in uh Texas they have lethal death by lethal injection i guess that's the uh preferred method have they used anything else
 	
 	
 		yeah
 		i don't know to tell you the truth i don't follow it uh any more than i have to but i do know someone was just recently uh
 	
 	
 		in in Texas in your memory
 		i see
 		oh  yeah that's that's kind of the euphemistic term for it um so uh have you been following the the Dahlmer case at all
 	
 	
 		put to sleep
 		exactly
 		ooh  no more than again no more than i have to um i have very mixed feelings about this whole issue um
 	
 	
 		that one's a little too grizzly too huh
 	
 	
 		uh i i really don't like the idea of of uh death penalty capital capital punishment however you want to put it
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		um and yet i do
 		concur that there are some people that have to be kept away
 		forever yeah i mean i really do think there are some people that there's nothing that can be done about so it makes a dilemma for me
 	
 	
 		hum
 		i see um do you think that uh putting putting those people in jail permanently would be an equally good solution
 	
 	
 		i i the i always think about it in terms of myself and i really wonder if i'd really wanna be in jail for the rest of my life or just killed
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		i mean i think i and some have asked to be killed
 		you know there there have been been some criminals who said
 		and this is what i want and i can yeah i can see that side of it
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		uh because i don't know what life is like what what life means if you're in jail the rest of your life
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 		well certainly for for someone like Charles Manson who's very definitely going to stay in jail for the rest of his life i uh i i can't imagine that he will ever be allowed out by the parole board that uh his life is not going to improve
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		um do you think uh do you think that that uh the death penalty is effective as a means of retribution
 	
 	
 		a a deterrent or right yeah
 	
 	
 		yeah as as as a deterrent value yeah
 	
 	
 		i'm not i don't know uh uh you know i don't think we've we haven't used it enough they say in in in countries where you know you're gonna have your hand cut off you know if you steal et cetera that
 		that it has that that there is less crime uh we certainly let our people out
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		way too fast i don't know i don't think i've got enough evidence on that what about you
 	
 	
 		um well to be honest i think that the uh capital punishment is is is a uh red herring in the crime and punishment business
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		um as you said we're letting our people out far too much really the problem is
 		that i i think two fold number one in Los Angeles as you may know there's uh lots and lots of problem high crime areas and and uh
 		in black parts of town the cops the cops don't trust the the people who live there and the people don't live there trust people don't trust the cops who who uh
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		run the beat  so in this heated air of mistrust people don't do what's necessary
 	
 	
 		um-hum
 	
 	
 		to keep crime down because
 		uh you know if if uh it takes too much work or if you're liable to get beaten just because you're black or whatever things are not going to change and so
 		capital punishment doesn't matter if the criminals who are committing the crimes don't get caught in the first place
 	
 	
 		right and may be killed on the street anyway death is not that big a i mean one way or the other death is part of their everyday lives
 	
 	
 		oh yeah as as uh
 	
 	
 		i mean a white collar person thinking they may get killed you know that's a big deal
 	
 	
 		yeah
 	
 	
 		but the other people are thinking they may get killed when they get up and walk to school
 	
 	
 		yeah exactly you know John John Singleton who's who uh made the film um  Boys in the Hood noted that uh one in twenty five black men will be killed at the hands of other black men
 	
 	
 		yeah
 		yes yeah
 	
 	
 		and uh that's you know for them the death penalty is irrelevant i mean it's what what difference is that going to make to them there's got to be more effective policing and there's got to be more trust on both sides of the equation
 	
 	
 		yeah yeah
 		that's right that that's right and uh what we do is we keep coming up with ways to handle i mean i just heard the attorney general or i think it was on  PBS the other night briefly going by because it made me to angry but he was talking about
 		how wonderful our presidents have been because uh we've gotten this and that many more jails and